by Carolee Sherwood
Of course poem size matters. It’s not everything, but it matters. And its function — focus, people, we’re talking poetry here — makes excellent fodder for a discussion about the writing process.
A recent Read Write Poll revealed that most of us have written poems of two or more pages, including several who have written poems of chapbook, book or epic length. Personally, I have never written a poem that exceeds two pages, although recently I did start a poem that will have multiple sections, likely surpassing the two-page barrier.
As a poet, I tend to fall on the side of short and sweet. As a reader, I enjoy concise language, and I like to be lead with great efficiency both into and out of a poem. In both instances, however, I am unclear if it’s a true literary preference, or if I force my poetry likes and dislikes to conform to my life. Do I have a true appreciation for brevity or is it just convenience? Do I lack the attention span as a writer and a reader to invest in longer pieces?
Certainly, I stand in awe at so many of the epics — written in section after section, act after act — and I am better for having read them. I am also grateful for bite-sized poems I can consume greedily, one after another. As a reader, what do you prefer? What do you read most often?
When I write poetry, I stop when I feel the poem has reached its natural ending. Typically when I revise, I am looking at opportunities to tighten language and remove unnecessary words. I rarely move in the opposite direction, toward exploring a concept with new scenes or adding another stanza. As a writer, how do you know when to stop? If you write longer pieces, how do you keep up your stamina and how do you maintain the momentum of the subject?
Here’s how the poll dance works: We post a poll and let it ride for a week and a half or so, and then I’ll talk a little bit about the topic and the results. The poll will stand for a few days after that to allow additional participation. The rotation gives each poll two weeks — or so — in the white-hot spotlight.
I most definitely prefer short poems, both in reading and writing. Even my longest poems are not over a page. Perhaps it is an attention span issue, though I often enjoy reading long novels. I suppose I expect fiction to be longer, and I expect poetry to “get to the point.”
amy, i think your expectations are held by many: we indulge in reading fiction, even really long stuff. it seems luxurious. when poetry is compared to that, we do expect something else.
of course, that’s because poetry is something else. and on its own, within its own genre, the length of individual pieces varies wildly. forgetting our generosity of time to other genres, should we make time for long poetry?
[...] poll dance is up at read write poem. it asks the question, does size matter? (poem size, of course. don’t tsk tsk me.) please go over and [...]
C.S. Lewis writes about looking in used copies of Homer and Virgil, finding underlines in the first few pages, and then nothing, as the person gives up trying to read them as if they were lyrics. He talks about how we’ve lost our understanding of long poems, and expect everything to be a lyric — to have that sort of compression and intensity. Which would be intolerable in a book-length poem, of course.
If we still read aloud, or recited from memory, in our culture, I think long poems would make more sense to us, with their formulas and repetitions. They’re more an oral than a written form really, I think.
dale, what lewis says makes sense to me. after my brain assimilates to the form and structure of longer pieces, its flow changes in my mind. i stop seeing it line by line, gathering up a much broader view of the piece, its story.
Whoa! I’ve been offline for awhile — the site looks great, and I look forward to jumping back in.
It seems like editors of online magazines prefer shorter poems, probably because people don’t want to be bothered with scrolling down the page!
Most of my poems tend to be thirty lines or shorter, probably because I post a lot of them to my blog.
But I love the old epic poems, like the Iliad and the Odyssey, and then there’s the Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, all those classics. Of course I read them all in English. Dale probably read them in Ancient Greek, Latin, and Italian!
I like The Lady of Shallot, which is a longer poem, and Eliot’s Four Quartets.
Wouldn’t it be a true accomplishment to write an engaging, sustaining poem written in parts?
Does anyone out there know what contemporary poets are doing this kind of work?
christine, it would be an accomplishment. i’m reading sarah lindsay right now. in her collection “twigs & knocklebones” she has a lengthy piece in parts. i haven’t tackled it yet, though, true to form for me. but i really enjoyed the rest of the collection.
i laughed out loud when i read your comment about our remarkable dale having read them in three languages. dear dale, are your ears burning?
before he can chime in and defend himself, i will confess that i had to read parts of both the iliad and the odyssey in latin when i was in high school.
it was painful then, but i look back at it as something everyone should do. wouldn’t it be fun to do it again?
confession: this is true. i had to do this reading/translation. however, it is not what resonated most with me about latin class. what sticks with me to this day is a short piece we read about “bucephelus.” he was alexander the great’s horse who was with him always and died in battle. it was called “bucephelus: fidelus amicus” (faithful friend, although i could have the grammar mucked up).
this has nothing to do with poetry, except that this is what christine made me think about. it’s her fault.
Dale wrote:
“If we still read aloud, or recited from memory, in our culture, I think long poems would make more sense to us, with their formulas and repetitions. They’re more an oral than a written form really, I think.”
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Our modern ears aren’t used to hearing these sorts of long poems, and they are more oral, as you say. I would love to hear epic poetry read aloud by someone who has the type of trained ear required, but reading it always overwhelms me, much like reading a Shakespeare play is difficult for me, but seeing it performed is fantastic. I can process it much better by hearing the words than I can visually with words on a page.
We’ll be publishing an excerpt from a contemporary, blank-verse epic at qarrtsiluni very soon. Of course, it will be accompanied by an audio player so people can listen as they read along – or choose just to listen. I’ll be interested in hearing people’s reactions to it.
I wrote a book-length poem once (see here) – Dale will remember when I blogged it; I think he’d one of the few that’s actually read the whole thing – so perhaps I can speak to the method of composition. First, I got an idea that was so exciting I could barely sleep. Then I spent a year doing research at the university library and taking lots of notes. Then when the excitement/agitation became too great to bear, I started writing things down – sections of the poem – without knowing in what order they’d eventually appear. A couple got discarded. Once a rough outline became visible, the writing became more premeditated and deliberate. I don’t regard the final result as a complete success but I had enormous fun writing it and I learned a lot. I had one or two authentic insights into deeply alien cultures, I think. Knowing what I needed to write did not, I found, over-determine what I ended up writing. There was a process of discovery no less miraculous than that involved in the composition of the shorter lyric poems I usually write.
Interesting poll and q&a, Carolee.
I haven’t tried writing anything very long, yet. One 2-pager is my current max. But imagine I will someday. I think my lack is due to any or a combination of: Perceived lack of time, lack of confidence, lack of narrative topic, not sure how to structure a story that requires a lot of development. Fear of commitment. I read Dave’s response and want to find myself so driven by one single topic that I immerse myself so fully.
That sounds frightening and freeing. All at once.
I do tend to read shorter pieces because of the perception of limited time. I agree with Christine that online reading tends to funnel me into “one screen” views. Although I will read online articles I have to go from page to page on, not uncommonly.
I recently read Gilgamesh and found it fascinating. While it is one long poem, it is still divided into sections, at least the translation I read (Mitchell, Stephen (2004). Gilgamesh: A New English Version. New York: Free Press. ISBN 0-7432-6164-X). I didn’t think I would enjoy it and was completely smitten with it.
As to modern epic-length poems, Jessica had us read Louise Glück’s Averno (might have even been the first Poetry Book Club selection) and it felt like an epic, even though the book is made up of discrete poems, if I recall correctly. And one or two lengthy ones. I found that I could settle into the poet’s mind much more comfortably with the time I had to find my way in the work. http://www.nationalbook.org/nba2006_p_gluck.html
You have all given me much to chew on.
Cibola is a kick-ass poem, terrific stuff. I loved it, Dave, and I still want to prod you into producing it in book form. I’ve been on the verge of offering to edit it and typeset it for a POD book a few times, but sanity has always supervened
I don’t have anything like the time. But it remains some of my favorite of your poetry.
I like poetry to be concise. Maybe I wouldn’t say “the shorter the better” but in my opinion poems are like seed for emotions, imagery and thoughts… and seeds are small.
[...] the planets are aligned perfectly, as they sometimes are. it is one of those rare weeks where my read write poll dance coincides with my read write prompt. so wednesday was the poll dance and today is the prompt. go [...]
Poll results, as of it’s closing (11/21/08):
What’s the longest poem you’ve ever written?
* two or more pages (48%, 54 Votes)
* less than a page (30%, 34 Votes)
* I don’t know yet because it’s not finished. (12%, 13 Votes)
* chapbook length (6%, 7 Votes)
* book length (3%, 3 Votes)
* epic (2%, 2 Votes)
Total Voters: 113
Just in case you wanted to know.