poll “dance”: do we tell the truth about our own talents?
Published by Carolee May 6th, 2008 in Carolee, Discussion Thread, Poll Dance.
The current poll is difficult to answer honestly. It forces us to balance our feelings about ourselves with the expectations that we will be gracious, humble and, far worse, politically correct. It requires us not only to be aware of our talent and work ethic but also to be comfortable sharing that assessment (even anonymously) with the rest of the world.
These dynamics exist in the poetry universe outside this poll, and I also suspect they have a great impact on our ability to write and as well as our ability to identify and polish our best work. Do poets and other writers/artists recognize the quality of their work with any degree of accuracy? As with fishermen (did you know some inflate the size of their catches?) and the “weight” blanks on health forms (did you know some people lie about the size of their backsides?), we sometimes have motivation to embellish or diminish our stories and our beliefs about ourselves.
Is it even possible for the creator to see the work in the same way others see it? Does it matter? Shouldn’t people write and paint and “poem” if they want to regardless of their level of talent or skill? Although Read Write Poem die-hards will fight buzzing swarms of killer poetry snobs to encourage people to write no matter what; not all of the world so freely supports the “amateur,” the “average,” the “hobbyist.” And not all the world embraces the legitimacy of the blog as a true poetry community worth the time of the “published poets” and “academics” among us. In other words, there’s a lot of chatter inside our heads, swirling around outside our heads that make it challenging to know for sure which poll answer is true for us.
However, if I am to finish my job and snake around this poll in a way that makes you want to give me money join me in the dance, I must assume the poll responses are as genuine and unadulterated as possible. (But it will be fun to hear what you think of the aforementioned influencing factors, as well.)
At press time, only four percent of RWP-ers stand on the rooftops and proclaim (barbaric yawps, anyone?) that they have an exceptional gift and work very hard. I’m proud of these poets whoever they are. I’d like to think that as I become more prolific and skillful with the craft of poetry I’d feel bold enough to celebrate my “exceptional gift.” If you chose this response right away, perhaps you could share how you came to that place (which from the outside looking in appears to be a beautiful garden where confidence and courage grow in abundant red blossoms). If you didn’t choose this response, do you wonder, like me, if it’s the sign of an evolved writer (something to reach for in time) or if it’s a state of mind anyone can acquire at any stage in their writing life?
Six percent identified themselves as naturals for whom it all comes easy. To some degree, anyone who’s been inspired on a regular basis probably admits that some of the inspiration came naturally. Perhaps others say the desire to write and even a small amount of the talent comes naturally. However, I know fewer people who’d use the word “easy.” Skeptics may argue that people who claim poetry comes easy may not be “serious” poets (whatever that means). So, naturals, we want to hear from you! Tell us how you approach the work or how it approaches you. If you’re so inclined, you may also e-mail some Zen wisdom directly to me. I’m. Desperate. For. Some. Relief. … But anyway, moving on …
A bunch of respondents (10 percent) claim to have no talent and no idea why they do this poetry thing anyway. I’ve heard people say this in moments of exasperation. Self-flagellation can be instinctual at the cellular level when things get hard. I’m curious: are these poets reporting their status on a bad day, a period of writers block, a catatonic state following NaPoWriMo? Or do they really struggle with this belief at their cores?
Two poll choices allow responders to identify mainly as hard workers: those who have more talent than average and those who have no more talent than anyone else. Each of these received 13 percent of the vote, and each represents a similar philosophy. They say, “I work really hard at this even though I represent something close to ‘average.’ Even though I’m not much different than anyone else, I put in the time to make something of my interest in writing poetry.” Maybe it’s my small-town working-class upbringing, but I like to believe that the work itself can be enough to make progress as a poet, to get “good” (saving, again, for another time, the argument about what that means and who decides). If you chose one of these two replies to the poll, is this how you feel?
The final response - “I write poetry no matter how I feel about my talent or work ethic” - earned more than half of the votes. Even our extremely scientific methods here at Read Write Poem (ha ha) have been unable to determine if it’s a popular answer because it’s a catch-all phrase or because it captures a mantra RWP-ers may be telling themselves: “Write no matter what. Write on good days and bad days. Write whether you feel like it or not. Write even if you don’t feel like you’re a poet.” The response is an affirmation and it’s very healthy. Let us know why you felt most comfortable with this response. Is it because it’s spot-on true for you? Is it because it fits you so well, none of the others came close? Is it because you want it to be true and you’re aiming for it?
I love all of our poll responders equally, of course, like any good mother, but I have special affection for the half of the group that chose the “I write no matter what” answer. It probably means you’re serious about your poetry, and I like that. But like any good mother, I’m also a bit suspicious of some of you because I can remember what it’s like to be standing in front of that poll facing difficult choices. I have been there. And I did the wrong thing. There, I said it. I confess I chose the “I write no matter what” response because it was safe. And because I was afraid to claim the response that resonated with me: “I have more talent than average, and I work very hard.” It seemed pompous instead of confident, and I balked. But truthfully, I don’t know if I could do this every day if I didn’t think I had a little bit of talent.
The bottom line, of course, is that writing poetry and saying we’re poets is gutsy, no matter where we fall on the spectrum.
Now it’s your turn! Jump up on the stage for the “poll dance.” Use the comments section to talk about your own response to the poll and your suspicions about the talents and work ethics of the poetry world at large.
~Carolee.
***
Here’s how the poll dance works: We post a poll and let it ride for a week and a half, and then I’ll talk a little bit about the topic and the results. The poll will stand for a few days after that to allow additional participation. The rotation gives each poll two weeks in the white-hot spotlight.
25 Responses to “poll “dance”: do we tell the truth about our own talents?”
- 1 Pingback on May 8th, 2008 at 11:47 am
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excellently written post. i think it’s a great, insightful question. i think being humble is important, but at the same time i think humility involves knowing your true ability, and working hard to become even better. i like to think that i answered honestly in my answer, but my thoughts on my level of talent surely can fluctuate, especially when i’m in a terrible moment of writer’s block.
i’m glad i stumbled onto this site. i’ll def be back. can’t wait to see what the final results of the post are.
Hmmm… you’re right it’s an interesting question. Though my answer was fairly clear - “natural” just feels right to me.
I wouldn’t say I work hard at writing poetry - sometimes it is difficult to write but most of the time that’s because I’m placing particular expectations on my work, or not listening to what I really want to say. Generally, however, I only write when I feel I have something to say - whether meaningful or frivolous - and my criteria is saying what I want to say and satisfying myself that I’ve said it well.
It’s interesting to compare it to singing, where I think I can fairly say I am exceptionally talented and used to work very hard… but it didn’t give me half as much pleasure as poetry does now.
The difference is the expectations I place on myself. Poetry I write for myself, principally, and thus it gives me great pleasure. Singing had become something I did for others and so it became an effort. Hard to judge whether my poetry gives others as much pleasure as my singing - but I feel it certainly achieves more pleasure in others at a cost of much less pain to me - that’s what I mean by it coming easily.
I’m working my way back to singing naturally and easily too - but it’s a slow process once you’ve lost that sense of freedom and ease.
I chose the “no matter what” answer because right now it is the most true for me. At any given point in my thirty years of writing poetry I would have chosen, with conviction, any one of the answers depending on where I was with myself and my writing.
In this last year I’ve gone out on a limb and submitted writing for publication about a half-dozen times; it had been five years since the last time I’ve done that. I’ve always wanted to be published, thought my poetry was pretty good, and expected/hoped for praise from others. Now I’m at the point where, jaded by rejection, I care less about praise and acceptance, and just want to write things that I feel good about. Maybe I’m in denial about the quality of my work and I keep telling myself that because then I can be lazy about trying to improve. I don’t know.
Some days it’s too tender to think about, some I feel compelled to tweak and revise and aim for perfection, and some I don’t give a rat’s @$$. What I’m shooting for is to have more days (than any other kind) where I write about something interesting, something funny, something heartfelt–and it’s just a joy to try and find the most dynamic combination of words and images to convey what’s inside me. I like what Lirone said about pleasure; I’m getting to the point where that’s more important to me, too.
lissa — glad you found the site, also. it’s a wonderful resource and supportive environment. as a bonus, we talk about lots of fun topics!
lirone — your point about the expectations we place on our writing being the part that’s difficult is an interesting one! at most stages of writing, expectations have nothing to contribute. i’d argue that the revision/editing phase requires expectations but nothing’s ever easy about revision anyway, so there’s nothing new there.
i also like considering what you said about the purpose/motivation for the writing: whether it’s to please ourselves or someone else. that does make a difference, i think, in how we perceive our ease and abilities.
chicklegirl — i’m glad you picked “no matter what” in the context of submissions (acceptance/rejection). that’s definitely an important time to be in the “i write no matter what” place. maybe we should have a dial on our brains/hearts that we could switch to the various poll responses that are appropriate/healthiest in a bunch of different scenarios.
I chose the last answer, “I write poetry no matter how I feel about my talent or work ethic” but I will qualify my answer. I write in waves. I either writing or I’m not….I will go a 1, 2 or 3 years without writing more than a couple poems in that particular year. Later I will write in torrents for a period of a couple years. During this time I write when it comes to me. I don’t get writers block during these times, I just usually sit down and write. When I’m not writing, I’m not thinking about writing, I’m doing other things, sort of like writing goes into hibernation. I don’t usually revise either. I want to go back and revise. Maybe if I could set up a schedule, it would help me.
I think the times when I am not writing, it is a spiritual thing, same when I am writing. When I am in tune spiritually, I write more; when I’m not, I write less….that’s my observation anyway. (I’m sure it is completely objective
)
To assess ones skills is a hard thing to do. I know I am a writer, but whether I ever publish is another story altogether. Here is one of my favorite quotes on writing: “I am a writer if I never write another line; I am alive if I never step out of this room again….the problem is not to expand a feeling, but to condense a feeling–all thought, tangled and tumbled in the empty crowded head of a writer–to one clear thought, one clear form, and still preserve the enormity, the hugeness, the unbearable all-at-onceness of being alive and knowing it, too.” ~Tess Slesinger, A Life in the Day of a Writer
Good Poll.
jimmmaaa — that makes a lot of sense. that in certain waves, we just write no matter what. the same could also probably be said about the “natural” answer. that in some phases of our writing lives, some things do come naturally.
your comments about writing being a spiritual experience may make an interesting future poll …
and that is a really great quote. wow! thank you for sharing it.
I didn’t answer the poll because none of the answers rang true to me - though the last probably came nearest. But right now, I’m not writing much at all. I think I have an average amount of talent, (above average in the population as a whole, if you include all those who never even try to write poetry), but so many of your answers included working exceptionally hard, and I’m just not doing that at the moment.
I wanted a choice that said “I have an average to above average amount of talent, and I would make more of it if I worked harder”
I do honestly think my work is horrible, but I don’t really care what others think of it. I suppose I don’t work hard enough, but I use all of my spare time for writing. (Which isn’t much! I work 30 hours a week and go to school 30 hours a week.)
I don’t want to be published, though, so I don’t really care how good my work is.
I just hope the one person i write for realizes how much I care.
catherine — we did overlook a response for poets who are not writing at the moment. the choice you give is an excellent one and true for many of us off and on.
noah — working “hard enough” is an elusive thing, too. the definition is different for everyone. i think if you’re spending your spare time at the writing “desk” then you’re doing fabulous. especially since you seem to know exactly why you’re writing. sounds to me like you’ve decided what you want to do and you’re doing it!
what a great idea.. didn’t realize the polls had addtl followup.. or did i … no matter, responding to this one… part of the “no matter what” how else could i possibly write… that appeared closest to what i felt.. it’s like being on a boat in the ocean comes the closest to describing what writing means to me… image the perfect day sailing along at an easy pace… other days no wind sorta sitting and then thrz the stormy days rocking just holding on… having found the writing blog world in the last six months i’m in seventh heaven just being able to write and read others as well… in the sense of taking writing seriously enough to make a commitment and effort to continuously write… there’s a lot to learn and read and write about… thanks so much for the april 30 days it was a wonderful challenge…
hi, OMB! we’ve been doing the “poll dance” for a while, but we took a break in april to focus on napowrimo (and i took a bit of a leave to help with some family stuff). this is our first one back, and it sounds like you recently found us. welcome!
i feel the same as you about blogging: it makes me want to write more.
congratulations on writing no matter if you feel like it or not. “they” (whoever that is) say it’s the best way to progress. whether they’re right or not, it does show a commitment to the writing. and that’s awesome!
your post was really thought-provoking, and makes us look a little more deeply into the reasons that we chose a particular response in the poll. i answered: i have to work really hard, even though I think I have more talent than ‘average’. Mainly, I don’t feel that I am ‘above’ anyone, but I’ve been told I have a talent with words and on some deep level, i must believe that i do (even though I don’t ‘feel’ that I do!!). As far as working hard or harder than others, whichever it is–I don’t feel ’special’, like, ‘I work harder than you…’ therefore…”I’m better than you’…NO, that’s not how I felt when I answered this way. It was: I HAVE to work really HARD (in my head, and in my feelings toward writing) when I write a really GOOD, decent poem. I am almost ‘afraid’ to write any poetry at all because I’m afraid it will be lousy. So, I basically just think a lot about writing poetry…Often I’ll write a poem with the belief that it’s lousy…unless, I have worked hard and spent a lot of energy (often ‘emotional’ energy), then I might think I’ve accomplished something. Usually, I feel quite inadequate, however. That said, much of my poetry isn’t censored and I just call it a ‘poem’ as soon as the words come out. But in my mind, it’s not a ‘great’ poem. I don’t think I’ve EVER written a ‘great’ poem.
thanks to everyone who’s chatting about the poll. it’s great that the site can be interactive in this way: “true” blog/”true” community/”real” conversation. love it!
jan–it sounds like you’re super hard on yourself. (i am also.) i get good advice from people like, “be kind to yourself.” “other people will beat you up so don’t help them.” that kind of thing. it’s all true.
what’s also true is that if you can get a poem to express you, it’s not “lousy.” it may not be the key to your nomination for poet laureate but being poet laureate takes up too much time anyway. simic let the “job” go recently b/c he wasn’t finding enough time to write.
AND (last thing), don’t spend more time thinking about writing than actually writing. i did that for years. i felt like a poet and knew i could write poetry but i had “nothing” to say so. it can be a little bit like an identity crisis. so stop thinking about it and write!
b/c you are so right — it’s a poem as soon as the words come out.
thanks for that, carolee. you are right, i am too hard on myself! (in many ways, we are all like that, i think!). i was re-thinking what i wrote after i submitted it. i’m at a point where i’m just starting to write poetry again, after years of ‘not writing’. so i’m kind of just getting my feet wet. i am finding that i’m having fun participating in the various sites that give prompts. i don’t have to worry about winning a prize or being great or anything…and i like that. it allows me to get experience and have fun, and meet others who like to do the same thing. i agree, it’s better to write than NOT write…for who knows what gem might show up in the writing process when you least expect it?!
I think that I have an above-average talent, and I work my arse off.
I would have liked to say that I’d still write poetry no matter what my talent, but … I wouldn’t. If I had a gift for playing the piano, like my father, I’d be doing that. And if I had a gift for higher mathematics, like my sister, I’d be whipping through her multi-variable calculus homework the same way she does (I know, what a freak). But I suck at math and piano. I balance my checkbook and hammer out the chords to random folk songs when I’m feeling so inclined, but I spend my effort on writing poetry.
Because I AM somewhat above average, darnit. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.
very true! there’s a reason i’m NOT so many things in this world. no interest. no aptitude. no natural ability. we forget that so many people feel that way about writing. they don’t think they can. they just don’t do it because they have no interest. etc. maybe just in admitting that we’re writers and giving it a try from time to time hints at some sort of natural inclination. or a natural affinity at the least.
Great conversation going on here. I forget what I chose for the poll. I remember thinking about a few selections. I can say that right now I work hard because I’ve learned how hard it is to write a poem that goes beyond the mere descriptive, to enter the world of honesty, truth, epiphanies, experiment, and discovery.
I’m also studying other genres– essays and stories, and it is all hard. It’s not hard to put words on the page, it’s hard to find the words that make people say “Jesus,” as Dorianne Laux said in Dana’s interview. That’s what I want. I want to write so that people turn off the TV, put their forks down, and say “damn, that is so true.”
Since that hasn’t happened yet, I keep writing. But then again, mostly I write because it’s a lot of fun. I enjoy it, and I’d keep writing, even if the Pope told me my writing sucks. I’d be happy he read my stuff! Even bad publicity is good publicity, right? I ramble.
Wow, this has been a great conversation. So many thoughtful and articulate responses.
Before I switch the poll to a new one, here are the final counts on the most-answered question we’ve even posted:
Check the belief that dominates your view of yourself as a poet (only one):
I write poetry, no matter how I feel about my talent or work ethic. (57%, 51 Votes)
I am not talented at all. (I don’t know why I do this poetry-thing anyway.) (10%, 9 Votes)
I have more talent than average and I work very hard. (10%, 9 Votes)
I don’t have any more talent than anyone else, but I work extremely hard. (8%, 7 Votes)
I am a natural and it all comes easy. (8%, 7 Votes)
I have an exceptional gift, and I work hard. (7%, 6 Votes)
Total Voters: 89
As for me? I went back and forth for a week on how to answer. Truly. And because I put the poll up I didn’t want to be the first one out of the gate. I simply could not be that public (even though no one but possibly Carolee would have guessed it was “my” answer). I ended up saying I have more talent than average - but, boy howdy, was I uncomfortable with that little nebulous word “more”…it reeked of smugness and self-satisfaction (see how I am?) and I have always been average – and work hard, too. That part is clearly true. Rarely does a poem come flowing off my pen or on the keyboard that I like just as it is…so rare I can probably count that experience on one hand.
The thing I take away from this exercise in self-awareness is that my view of myself changes weekly, daily and maybe even hourly. So when I am in the dumps about how bad I write, or how non-productive I have been I can more readily tell myself this too shall pass…and just keep writing. No matter how I feel that day.
Nice poll and dance, Carolee!
thanks for the summary, deb! that’s a great idea to do before posting the new one. and good for you for claiming your answer (and your talent).
Wow, what an interesting piece and poll (I was hovering over the link on my site to yesterday’s poem and saw it, missed it first time round so never voted). I’m not sure how I’d have voted, but all the answers here gave me lots of food for thought. Well done Carolee, ….Deb.
thanks, jo!